Today we’re harkening back to the newspaper days. Remember when newspapers would have advice columns that people would write into. Like a “Dear Abigail” advice column. Does anyone remember those? Basically, podcasts before podcasts were a thing. 

WELL, we’re doing a super fun advice column on the podcast today ALL about photography. We had YOU our listeners, write in to tell us your biggest struggles or circumstances you’ve encountered in your photography business. And today on the show we’re answering your submissions sharing what we would do in each circumstance. We cover submissions about how to deal with newer photographers asking for everything from you for free, what to do when someone straight-up doesn’t show up for their session and they’ve paid you, YIKES, and what to do when a client refuses to pay you, YUP. We’re going there.

So, what would Lindsey and Evie do??? Let’s find out. 

 

1st Submission comes from Mary:

I would love tips on how to healthily deal with other photographers who constantly want stuff from you. For example: asking you to share locations, asking you what your exact client gift is, asking for course logins that you invested in (this one is just straight-up theft and easy to say no to but I can’t believe that people ask this), asking you what you all put in your wedding and pricing guides etc. etc. I’m all for community over competition and I have a hard time saying no sometimes, but it just feels icky when you’ve spent so many hours scouting for a location or just invested in quality education or guide templates and someone else instantly wants to reap rewards from your hard work. It’s a little different when it’s a close photographer friend and you’re both helping each other but I’m specifically struggling with people you barely know or know a little.

 

Advice: 

This can apply to any industry. Most of the time this comes from an innocent place besides the ones asking for course log-in information. A lot of people don’t understand what they are asking or that they are asking too much. Or that there might be boundaries. When you think back to the beginning of your career, where you don’t even know what you don’t know. 

It requires a lot of grace on our end in responding and intentionally educating and share not just “no” but sharing why that that might be the case. 

Respond truthfully but with a firm message. Explain yourself with grace, kindly but firmly. Saying no kindly but giving them a challenge to rise up and location scout themselves. 

There is a way to give information without giving the answer key. You can answer it without giving the exact item that you order as a client gift. Or for your pricing guide say you answer questions that your clients might have. There are ways to help them with a helping hand that is not giving them the entire answer key that you have worked your butt off for. 

 

2nd Submission comes from Rochelle:

Not necessarily an issue but a weird thing happen last summer. I had a shoot with a distant family friend(so we weren’t close) she paid and signed the contract then never showed up for the shoot. I reached out to her a couple of times after to just to make sure she was okay since she had emailed me the day before. It was so weird I never heard from her then months later saw her post on Facebook so I just had to assume she was okay. 

aka : what do you do when someone straight-up doesn’t show up to a session they’ve booked and PAID for and then never responds to you…

 

Advice: 

This is unusual, if someone pays they most likely will show up. Our first thought is did they die? In the moment if she doesn’t show up, you’ve done all the work prior and looked like everything is good to go. If you are at the session though and 30 minutes to an hour later and she doesn’t show, how long do you wait? 

It depends on what it is for. If it’s for a portrait session that is an hour we would stay the full hour to see if anyone shows up. Then probably head out. Then if they show up, it depends on the situation if you decide to reschedule. If they show up late and it is not their fault you reschedule. If they show up late and it is their fault, you do not reschedule. 

How to do that kindly it by pointing back to the contract. 

We would do everything that Rochelle did. If there is no response you just move on. It is a weird situation, but you got paid for the time and energy that went into the preparation. We would then reach out asking if they want to book another session since they never showed up for the first one. 

We don’t think we would say anything when we see the Facebook post later. We would just leave it. 

 

3rd Submission comes from Macee:

This is a long one, so get ready. This is the absolute most infuriating situation I’ve ever encountered as a photographer. While I think I handled the situation well, I do think about this situation a lot and I’m interested to know how someone else would have handled it. 

I shot a wedding for a close friend a few years ago and did not do a contract (this is when I first started out wedding photography, did not realize I needed one). Their engagement photos were in January and their wedding in July. I only charged them $600 for both, and it was verbally agreed that they would pay half at the engagement session and half at the wedding. Well, engagement photos came and they didn’t have any money for me and said they would pay me the following week. But… No payment. I bring it up a few times, and they finally ask (5 weeks after their engagement session) if they can just pay the full amount at the wedding. At this point I have a bad feeling about this, but because they were my close friends (at the time) I decided to ignore my gut feeling and just go ahead and shoot the wedding anyways. They’re my friends, they won’t screw me over, right? 

I get to the wedding and go to the getting ready room and immediately ask Bride if we can get payment settled so that we can get through the day without worrying about it. She says she doesn’t have the money on her at the moment, but was planning on paying me after the reception when it was time for everyone to go home. I decided to say “f*** it” and shot the 10 hour wedding without even a dime. End of night comes, and the bride and groom are so drunk that they can’t even walk, let alone write a check. I mention to the bride that I’ll call her the following Monday concerning payment, congratulate them, and head out for the night. 

It’s well past midnight at this point, so I’m ready to pass the heck out. The wedding is quite a few hours away from where I live and the bride has said that she paid for my hotel room for the night of the wedding. I get to the hotel where the bride has assured me there is a room booked and paid for. I go to the front desk and check in – there’s a room reserved for me, sure, but the Bride never paid for the room. So not only did I work a full wedding day and an engagement session without getting paid, i also had to pay for the hotel room I was promised would be paid for. 

At this point, I am absolutely livid. I wait out the weekend before calling the bride on the following Monday. I know I’m partially at fault at this point for not having contracts in place, so I try to not be too aggravated. I call and tell her that as soon as I receive full payment I will deliver her photos but not until then. She agrees, apologizes and says that she’ll have me paid by the end of the week. I have all the photos edited and ready to be sent by the end of the week as well, but I absolutely refused to actually send them until paid. A week comes and goes, and no payment. At this point I’ve expected it. 

The bride stops taking my calls and ignores my emails, but what she does is sic her mother on me. On a daily basis I get harassing messages from her mother like: if I ran my business like this it would be run into the ground, I will get those photos from you one way or another, you will regret not sending the photos” and etc. Three more months go by of me constantly getting messages from her mother, me explaining repetitively that I have not even been paid and my policy is no photos until payment, and since she was not the one who hired me I would not be releasing any photos to her, me constantly emailing the bride making it very clear the photos are ready and I was ready to give them to the bride as soon as payment is made, and so on. Finally in October the bride finally replies and she’s angry as a hornet that she hasn’t gotten her photos yet. This is also a full 3 months of the mother of the bride messaging me daily and leaving bad reviews on my photography social media frequently. I explain for the hundredth time that they’ve been ready for months, I’ve just been waiting for payment. And right back to ignoring me she goes. In this time frame from the wedding in July to October, the bride has avoided me at all costs from no longer hanging out with our friend group, avoiding talking to me and my boyfriend at any costs, and prohibiting her new husband from hanging out with us as well. Finally in October, my boyfriend and the husband decide that enough is enough and that the bride needs to get over it. They arrange a night where we have dinner and hang out. 

The first thing the husband says when they come over is “Pay Macee”. The bride refuses, saying that she left her purse in the car and it was too cold outside. She says she’ll grab the check when she goes out there to start the car before they leave later. The husband is irritated and tries getting her to just go get it, but eventually gives up. Dinner passes, we hang out for around 4 more hours and now they want to leave. The husband says again that she needs to go get the check. She throws a fit like a toddler about how I should have just done the wedding for free, and that I shouldn’t still be throwing a fit about getting paid and I should have given her the photos Immediately after the wedding. Husband is mad at this point and very embarrassed. Eventually the bride stomps her foot and pulls the check out of her pocket (where it had been ALL NIGHT) throws it at me, and goes and pouts in the car. Since then, I have had little to no contact with either the bride or groom, but I think of this situation often and wonder if I handled it well or not. 

I feel like $600 for engagement photos and a 10 hour wedding day as well as a hotel room that was promised to be paid for from the couple, is absolute dirt cheap. This is when I first got started and had barely shot any weddings. There should not have been this big of an issue over it, especially when I know both the bride and groom had the money to pay for it. 

I got contracts immediately after and have NEVER done a single session without one. I should have had them in the first place, but I genuinely did not think that such good friends would ever screw me over like that. 

The bride never apologized for trying to get away with not paying me at all and for her mother harassing me and leaving false negative reviews. Not only did she avoid paying me as much as she could, she let her mother tarnish my reputation. 

I would never be caught dead in a situation like this again, but from the standpoint of a beginner photographer who genuinely did not know any better concerning contracts, I feel like I handled it okay. How would you guys have handled this?

 

Advice: 

Macee handled this incredibly well, all things considered, aside from the contract. The thing that we might have done is email the bride not necessarily threatening legal action, but could say “your mother is defaming my reputation and character for no reason”. We would almost maybe take it in that direction with a cease and desist. If the mother doesn’t stop making accusations about me online I am going to figure out how to take legal action. You could argue legal action for defaming you, but who’s to say that Macee didn’t say she would do the wedding for free and is withholding photos. 

The verbal agreement doesn’t stand a chance in court. You need a written agreement on both sides. 

Macee did the right thing by withholding the photos until payment. We would screen shot any written text or email where the bride said she would pay at the wedding day. That way it is written somewhere. If the mother of the bride wrote you a review on Google we would respond back and succinctly descsribe the situation. That is the only thing you can do when you have a negative review that is false you have to respond back. Combat lies with the truth. 

Lessons for Beginner Photographers: 

• Get a contract
• We would never have your payment due date be on your bride & grooms wedding day. It needs to be before their wedding day because you will not show up until that payment is received. 
• The photographer should book the room and then the bride reiumburses the room before the wedding day. 
• You should not be showing up to the engagement session without a non-refundable retainer. 

 

 

Show notes

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